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	<title>Comments on: Digging deeper into Tod Papageorge&#8217;s &#8216;Passing Through Eden&#8217;</title>
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	<description>insig.ht is both quick take and deep dive into the means of making photographs. It’s personal vision, from the inside out; a new, collective way of seeing that’s immediate, original and global.</description>
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		<title>By: Backdrifts: Re-evaluating a Project &#124; Bryan Formhals</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Backdrifts: Re-evaluating a Project &#124; Bryan Formhals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-153</guid>
		<description>[...] Backdrifts: Re-evaluating a Project Posted by brayn &#8211; November 24, 2009     Hollywood, Calif.  &#8220;I even suspect many photographers are lying when they say they had it all planned in advance and that they spent ages working on one particular concept, when in fact they just threw it together at the end. It feels like the former approach is regarded as more respectable: smarter and more insightful.&#8221; &#8211; Raoul Gatepin [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Backdrifts: Re-evaluating a Project Posted by brayn &ndash; November 24, 2009     Hollywood, Calif.  &#8220;I even suspect many photographers are lying when they say they had it all planned in advance and that they spent ages working on one particular concept, when in fact they just threw it together at the end. It feels like the former approach is regarded as more respectable: smarter and more insightful.&#8221; &#8211; Raoul Gatepin [...]</p>
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		<title>By: scotialuhrs</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>scotialuhrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Something I want to add to your discussion about post-hoc conceptualising of projects (sparked by Tod P&#039;s Eden book)... sorry, this is 4-5 months late for this discussion... but it seems to me that art schools, BA/MA photography programs are a big reason why artists/photographers might play down the fact that projects come together sometimes with little intention. Or even are created completely after photos were made.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is a very entrenched view that projects should be created conceptually before a picture is ever taken in the academic world. It isn&#039;t the fault of art institutions really; they have to justify why they exist, and they exist to teach people a particular way of working. If someone comes along and &#039;throws it together at the end&#039; then why take an art course? It is an attitude that art institutions can&#039;t afford to support.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br&gt;From Hin&#039;s article:&lt;br&gt;I even suspect many photographers are lying when they say they had it all planned in advance and that they spent ages working on one particular concept, when in fact they just threw it together at the end. It feels like the former approach is regarded as more respectable: smarter and more insightful. – R&lt;br&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The planning-in-advance approach is more respected, but I think that sometimes people who haven&#039;t gone through art school are actually much freer than those of us who have been through academic training. I remember at one crit being told that the fact that my &#039;series&#039; contained both landscape and portrait formats was problematic. Where does this idea that everything must be worked in series and be identical formats come from? This is very popular idea in photo MA world. And for some practitioners its important, but certainly not for everyone. I say, explore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I want to add to your discussion about post-hoc conceptualising of projects (sparked by Tod P&#39;s Eden book)&#8230; sorry, this is 4-5 months late for this discussion&#8230; but it seems to me that art schools, BA/MA photography programs are a big reason why artists/photographers might play down the fact that projects come together sometimes with little intention. Or even are created completely after photos were made.  </p>
<p>There is a very entrenched view that projects should be created conceptually before a picture is ever taken in the academic world. It isn&#39;t the fault of art institutions really; they have to justify why they exist, and they exist to teach people a particular way of working. If someone comes along and &#39;throws it together at the end&#39; then why take an art course? It is an attitude that art institutions can&#39;t afford to support.</p>
<p><i><br />From Hin&#39;s article:<br />I even suspect many photographers are lying when they say they had it all planned in advance and that they spent ages working on one particular concept, when in fact they just threw it together at the end. It feels like the former approach is regarded as more respectable: smarter and more insightful. – R<br /></i></p>
<p>The planning-in-advance approach is more respected, but I think that sometimes people who haven&#39;t gone through art school are actually much freer than those of us who have been through academic training. I remember at one crit being told that the fact that my &#39;series&#39; contained both landscape and portrait formats was problematic. Where does this idea that everything must be worked in series and be identical formats come from? This is very popular idea in photo MA world. And for some practitioners its important, but certainly not for everyone. I say, explore.</p>
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		<title>By: scotialuhrs</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>scotialuhrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-126</guid>
		<description>Something I want to add to your discussion about post-hoc conceptualising of projects (sparked by Tod P&#039;s Eden book)... sorry, this is 4-5 months late for this discussion... but it seems to me that art schools, BA/MA photography programs are a big reason why artists/photographers might play down the fact that projects come together sometimes with little intention. Or even are created completely after photos were made.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is a very entrenched view that projects should be created conceptually before a picture is ever taken in the academic world. It isn&#039;t the fault of art institutions really; they have to justify why they exist, and they exist to teach people a particular way of working. If someone comes along and &#039;throws it together at the end&#039; then why take an art course? It is an attitude that art institutions can&#039;t afford to support.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br&gt;From Hin&#039;s article:&lt;br&gt;I even suspect many photographers are lying when they say they had it all planned in advance and that they spent ages working on one particular concept, when in fact they just threw it together at the end. It feels like the former approach is regarded as more respectable: smarter and more insightful. – R&lt;br&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The planning-in-advance approach is more respected, but I think that sometimes people who haven&#039;t gone through art school are actually much freer than those of us who have been through academic training. I remember at one crit being told that the fact that my &#039;series&#039; contained both landscape and portrait formats was problematic. Where does this idea that everything must be worked in series and be identical formats come from? This is very popular idea in photo MA world. And for some practitioners its important, but certainly not for everyone. I say, explore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I want to add to your discussion about post-hoc conceptualising of projects (sparked by Tod P&#39;s Eden book)&#8230; sorry, this is 4-5 months late for this discussion&#8230; but it seems to me that art schools, BA/MA photography programs are a big reason why artists/photographers might play down the fact that projects come together sometimes with little intention. Or even are created completely after photos were made.  </p>
<p>There is a very entrenched view that projects should be created conceptually before a picture is ever taken in the academic world. It isn&#39;t the fault of art institutions really; they have to justify why they exist, and they exist to teach people a particular way of working. If someone comes along and &#39;throws it together at the end&#39; then why take an art course? It is an attitude that art institutions can&#39;t afford to support.</p>
<p><i><br />From Hin&#39;s article:<br />I even suspect many photographers are lying when they say they had it all planned in advance and that they spent ages working on one particular concept, when in fact they just threw it together at the end. It feels like the former approach is regarded as more respectable: smarter and more insightful. – R<br /></i></p>
<p>The planning-in-advance approach is more respected, but I think that sometimes people who haven&#39;t gone through art school are actually much freer than those of us who have been through academic training. I remember at one crit being told that the fact that my &#39;series&#39; contained both landscape and portrait formats was problematic. Where does this idea that everything must be worked in series and be identical formats come from? This is very popular idea in photo MA world. And for some practitioners its important, but certainly not for everyone. I say, explore.</p>
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		<title>By: sevensevennine.com &#124; nick turpin on street photography &#124; Absence</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>sevensevennine.com &#124; nick turpin on street photography &#124; Absence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-56</guid>
		<description>[...] the mean time I can highly recommend some quality reading and debate for you over at insig.ht. And a challenging article from Michael David Murphy which is one of the best I&#8217;ve read on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the mean time I can highly recommend some quality reading and debate for you over at insig.ht. And a challenging article from Michael David Murphy which is one of the best I&#8217;ve read on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hin Chua</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Hin Chua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-55</guid>
		<description>On a tangential note regarding talking about your work and allowing users to make their own interpretations, I was reading this interesting article today on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2008/09/my-art-advice-artist-statement.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;myartspace&lt;/a&gt; on the writing and value of artist statements:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br&gt;I’ve noticed two opinionated sides when it comes to the need for an artist statement. The supportive side will claim that the artist statement is of importance because it helps guide viewers so that they have a better understanding of the art they are viewing. In the extreme people will go as far as to say that the artist statement is a reflection of how well the artist in question can communicate both verbally and visually-- implying that an artist who writes a poor artist statement is at least partially discredited as an artist-- as in the validity of his or her art may also be questioned.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The opposing side will claim that the artist statement is not necessary because the artwork should be the statement. People who oppose artist statements generally feel that the statement can become a distraction as far as the artwork is concerned. In the extreme those who oppose artist statements will go as far as to say that the statement is an insult to all visual artists because it cheapens the value of visual language by projecting the idea that visual art fails to communicate openly with viewers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a tangential note regarding talking about your work and allowing users to make their own interpretations, I was reading this interesting article today on <a href="http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2008/09/my-art-advice-artist-statement.html" rel="nofollow">myartspace</a> on the writing and value of artist statements:</p>
<p><i><br />I’ve noticed two opinionated sides when it comes to the need for an artist statement. The supportive side will claim that the artist statement is of importance because it helps guide viewers so that they have a better understanding of the art they are viewing. In the extreme people will go as far as to say that the artist statement is a reflection of how well the artist in question can communicate both verbally and visually&#8211; implying that an artist who writes a poor artist statement is at least partially discredited as an artist&#8211; as in the validity of his or her art may also be questioned.</p>
<p>The opposing side will claim that the artist statement is not necessary because the artwork should be the statement. People who oppose artist statements generally feel that the statement can become a distraction as far as the artwork is concerned. In the extreme those who oppose artist statements will go as far as to say that the statement is an insult to all visual artists because it cheapens the value of visual language by projecting the idea that visual art fails to communicate openly with viewers.<br /></i></p>
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		<title>By: turpin</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>turpin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-54</guid>
		<description>Good discussion, my concern with not having some intention ahead of picture making is that there can be no measure of success or failure, I remember an artist telling me that her work &#039;raised questions to which there were really no right or wrong answers&#039;....&#039;then you are doing nothing&#039; I felt like telling her ( I didn&#039;t because she was very cute ) . Its a cop out, you risk nothing to produce work that is intended to &#039;allow the viewer to make their own interpretation&#039;....viewers of any art work are going to do that anyway.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your intention can be as simple or loose as &#039;I&#039;m going out on the streets with my camera and I&#039;m simply going to react to unfolding events and let the street reveal itself to me&#039; but I think you should have one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good discussion, my concern with not having some intention ahead of picture making is that there can be no measure of success or failure, I remember an artist telling me that her work &#39;raised questions to which there were really no right or wrong answers&#39;&#8230;.&#39;then you are doing nothing&#39; I felt like telling her ( I didn&#39;t because she was very cute ) . Its a cop out, you risk nothing to produce work that is intended to &#39;allow the viewer to make their own interpretation&#39;&#8230;.viewers of any art work are going to do that anyway.</p>
<p>Your intention can be as simple or loose as &#39;I&#39;m going out on the streets with my camera and I&#39;m simply going to react to unfolding events and let the street reveal itself to me&#39; but I think you should have one.</p>
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		<title>By: bryanf</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>bryanf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-37</guid>
		<description>well, aren&#039;t you going down the path of “The photography-integrated-into-life method” that was debated a few weeks ago? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/05/observation.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/05/observ...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And really, doesn&#039;t kind of go back to &#039;The Democratic Forest&#039;?  Or even further? I guess it seems what&#039;s brewing here is a discussion about what even constitutes a project. i know from talking to Raoul, that he and I feel that what we consider projects/edits right now might change over time.  It seems the web has opened up the possibility of creating multiple interpretations and representations of your work.  Look at the way &#039;After the Fall&#039; has evolved over the last couple of years.  And I&#039;m sure it&#039;s nowhere near evolving and maturing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, aren&#39;t you going down the path of “The photography-integrated-into-life method” that was debated a few weeks ago? </p>
<p><a href="http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/05/observation.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/05/observ.." rel="nofollow">http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/05/observ..</a>.</p>
<p>And really, doesn&#39;t kind of go back to &#39;The Democratic Forest&#39;?  Or even further? I guess it seems what&#39;s brewing here is a discussion about what even constitutes a project. i know from talking to Raoul, that he and I feel that what we consider projects/edits right now might change over time.  It seems the web has opened up the possibility of creating multiple interpretations and representations of your work.  Look at the way &#39;After the Fall&#39; has evolved over the last couple of years.  And I&#39;m sure it&#39;s nowhere near evolving and maturing.</p>
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		<title>By: mdm</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>mdm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Interesting to consider which books &amp; projects might have been developed (to a greater degree than most project shooting) &quot;post-hoc&quot;, in the edit.  Two on my shelf that have that appearance would be &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mike-slack.com/!.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OK OK OK&lt;/a&gt; by Mike Slack, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edpanar.com/goldenpalms/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Golden Palms&lt;/a&gt; by Ed Panar.  I should ask them, or maybe I already have?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not sure that calling this (or these) &quot;post-hoc&quot; is the best way to consider it.  &quot;Lifestyle&quot; is a swing and a miss, too.  Hrrmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to consider which books &#038; projects might have been developed (to a greater degree than most project shooting) &#8220;post-hoc&#8221;, in the edit.  Two on my shelf that have that appearance would be <a href="http://www.mike-slack.com/!.html" rel="nofollow">OK OK OK</a> by Mike Slack, and <a href="http://www.edpanar.com/goldenpalms/index.html" rel="nofollow">Golden Palms</a> by Ed Panar.  I should ask them, or maybe I already have?</p>
<p>Not sure that calling this (or these) &#8220;post-hoc&#8221; is the best way to consider it.  &#8220;Lifestyle&#8221; is a swing and a miss, too.  Hrrmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: Hin Chua</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Hin Chua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Going through my book collection for other works that may have been conceived post-hoc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Adam Jeppesen&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.adamjeppesen.com/text.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wake&lt;/a&gt; could be a &lt;i&gt;potential&lt;/i&gt; candidate, only because much of it was made while Jeppesen was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.adamjeppesen.com/text.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on assignment&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s a line ball call, but the work is so magnificently atmospheric and coherent that I find myself doubting this assertion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going through my book collection for other works that may have been conceived post-hoc.</p>
<p>Adam Jeppesen&#39;s <a href="http://www.adamjeppesen.com/text.html" rel="nofollow">Wake</a> could be a <i>potential</i> candidate, only because much of it was made while Jeppesen was <a href="http://www.adamjeppesen.com/text.html" rel="nofollow">on assignment</a>. It&#39;s a line ball call, but the work is so magnificently atmospheric and coherent that I find myself doubting this assertion.</p>
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		<title>By: Hin Chua</title>
		<link>http://insig.ht/2009/06/digging-deeper-into-passing-through-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Hin Chua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insig.ht/?p=25#comment-31</guid>
		<description>FYI, Blake Andrews has an &lt;a href=&quot;http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-collaborative-photo-blog-insight.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interesting piece&lt;/a&gt; on the matter, comparing Papageorge&#039;s work with Robert Crumb&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, Blake Andrews has an <a href="http://blakeandrews.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-collaborative-photo-blog-insight.html" rel="nofollow">interesting piece</a> on the matter, comparing Papageorge&#39;s work with Robert Crumb&#39;s.</p>
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